Who uses Eclipse Tools?


(Andy Wootton) #1

I’ve seen a couple of references to the Eclipse IDE but Eclipse hasn’t been mentioned much in the forum. I’ve never come across anyone using it in my career but I always found the large companies I’ve mostly worked for afraid of free things. Which bits of Eclipse have people tried and what do you think?

I’ve become interested because ‘Clojure for the Brave & True’ recommended emacs with CIDER as the development environment for Clojure but I’ve become annoyed at the amount of time I’m spending learning emacs instead of Clojure. If I’m away from it for a week or 2 then I forget all the key combinations. I’m not getting involved in coding to spend all my time messing with configuring infrastructure. I’ve belatedly realised that the book also mentioned counterclockwise which runs in Eclipse on the JVM. There’s a question to be answered about whether my Clojure environment is Linux, Lisp (eLisp & emacs) or the JVM, leading naturally to Eclipse. Would anyone like to warn me off before I waste even more time on an editor?

I got interested in Eclipse because it appears to have a nice UML tool and I’ve thought about trying it for DocBook before. Like emacs, it has customisations for everything I can think of trying though looks a bit more resource hungry. It probably comes down to my lack of memory vs my netbook’s. I’ve already discovered my JVM is too old to run Eclipse Neon.


(Andy Wootton) #2

btw If anyone hasn’t looked at Eclipse recently, there’s now Eclipse Orion and Eclipse Che (installable in Docker) too, just in case it wasn’t all confusing enough.


(Marc Cooper) #3

Eclipse is used quite heavily in Java shops.

emacs and vim are excellent when you are coding in them for hours a day. You eventually rely on muscle memory. Without practice, a lot of that goes away, ime. I used to use vim and tmux for everything, but as I coded less, I found myself using Sublime more and more. (I’m also on a Mac, where key bindings are, generally, shared across apps, which helps with the muscle memory.)

I was recently working in a, predominantly, Java shop. Most folk were using Eclipse. I used Sublime without any problems. There are a lot of advantages to using Eclipse with Java, especially with large projects or when doing major refactoring.

If you just want get on with Clojure, then I’d use something like Sublime or VS Code. But go ahead with Eclipse if you fancy it. It’s always had a reputation for being a bit of a resource hungry app, although perhaps that’s changed.

If your JVM is out of date, then it’s probably worth bringing it up to date.


(Andy Wootton) #4

Sadly I can’t because my Linux is out of date and there isn’t enough space to upgrade so I need to re-install, so I keep putting it off. Have moved to my 64-bit Atom :slight_smile:

I’ve now discovered Ubuntu Repos have Juno 3.8/renumbered 4.2? Eclipse, from 2012. It is now on 4.6 Neon. This seems to be happening with everything I want to use on Ubuntu lately. The goodness is bleeding out of the easy package management.


(Andy Wootton) #5

Tried Eclipse. Seems to install loads of stuff I don’t need and takes a long time to load, so tried ‘standalone’ counterclockwise. Gives me about the same as a file manager + emacs and still uses key combinations to interact with the REPL window. I’m not convinced it’s much easier :frowning:


(Marc Cooper) #6

Yeah, it’s a bit of a beast. It was kinda okay in its day.

I used to use Netbeans for Java. It had decent ruby integration at one point, but then Oracle happened. And they killed it. Netbeans might be worth a try. The googles seems to indicate that it supports Clojure, one way or another.

I’ve found that when using a language that provides good repl support, a simple terminal is sufficient. I think it was @stevejalim that suggested a simple (today) editor (like Sublime/Atom/VS Code) with a good linter goes a long way. Works for me.

I also use Dash rather than code completion (which I’ve never got on with, personally). Constant exposure to the docs helps memorisation, I find. I think it’s Mac-only, though.


(Stuart Langridge) #7

That’s the Eclipse team’s fault; they don’t want people to package their stuff, they want you to use their own installer. Sigh, etc. (https://stackoverflow.com/questions/39427493/eclipse-4-6-neon-via-ppa)


(Andy Wootton) #8

YeahBut: I’ve had trouble with Clojure, Leiningen, umbrello (KDE) xmlcopyeditor and freemind (gone from repos) recently too. Ubuntu is lagging behind Debian on some things. I’m worried that ‘the Unity attitude’ upset a lot of packaging volunteers.

Of course it’s also a result of people deciding that ‘platforms’ are more portable than operating systems. I thought that was ‘the point’ of Unix but Ubuntu knew better than us - we only wanted Ubuntu, on our desktop AND our phone. Apparently, we didn’t. We still wanted portable applications, so we weren’t controlled by tyrants. Who could possibly have known? What we all really want is one decent modern applications library, accessible from any language, instead of 20 language/library combos.

The other thing that put me off Eclipse was that I realised I was heading down a ‘one ring to rule them all’ path and I’m a hi-fi seperates kind of guy: small pieces, loosely joined.


(Marc Cooper) #9

I started writing a response about packaging all the things, but it sounded ranty. Really, we need more protocols in many areas, so that folk can build against an interface, and stuff can be easily developed and shared.

Remaining on-topic, just, there’s a decent example in the Language Server Protocol.


(Jim Seconde) #10

I’ve used Eclipse for Java, BIRT Reporting (open source data reporting package) and PHP Development. While it has had it uses and, let’s be fair here - the thing is free, I feel like I’ve done my time with it.

My problem is that due to it being the adaptable monster it is, it has far too much clutter. It’s also a complete memory monster compared to a heavily modified Sublime or Atom.

PHPStorm (see: any JetBrains product for your language) is my tool of choice now. It feels a bit old fashioned going back to a proprietary product that has a yearly subscription, but my goodness is it worth it.


(Andy Wootton) #11

Warning to Linux apt (Ubuntu) folks.
I had Eclipse 3.81 installed but stripped it out to install 4.6 Neon. I played with it, didn’t like it much so uninstalled Eclipse and got on with life.

Next time I ran Synaptic, it was ready to auto-trash anything that had ever been near Java, including Java. As I’m trying to code in Clojure, I’m quite attached to the JVM. I think this is a result of sloppy packaging. Maybe it’s why they gave up trying. I’ve got myself away from the black hole by reinstalling 3.81. It wasn’t bothering me before, so I’ll try to ignore it.


(Andy Wootton) #12

That’s a nice list of tech too. Is there anything we should have on the MIC list? I’ve spotted editors, because I’d already thought of that.


(Marc Cooper) #13

@woo You need to get on and do some development instead of messing around with tools. I want to read about the stuff you’ve built; the frustrations you’re having with your db; the fact that OAuth is the work of the devil; the pain of why this statement works and this one doesn’t. This endless tinkering and lack of progress can’t be much fun.

Why not just install Sublime (or VS Code or Atom) and start coding? If Clojure and its JVM stuff is causing grief, just install elixir and get rocking. Have some fun. Write code. I cannot tell you how much stuff I get done every day in elixir-land, and I barely get an hour here and there to write code.

Stuff just works out of the box these days if you care to use it.


(Andy Wootton) #14

I only spent an evening on it. It was repairing the damage that took the time :slight_smile:

Everything I’m doing is deeply intertwingled with the book. Getting on with things isn’t the point.

Today I made my first .json file. It reminds me of Algol 68 - commas as separators instead of terminators. See, development is boring.


(Marc Cooper) #15

I’d say getting on with things is the point. But maybe I’m just rubbish at getting on with things :worried:

Development, done right, is rarely boring. It’s mostly awesome, majestic, glorious, heroic. If it’s boring, you doin’ it wrong, fella. Well, mostly :wink:


(Andy Wootton) #16

I didn’t mean development was boring. I meant writing about development is boring. Though I did once sit with 2 golfers and talking about golf is far worse…

On my daughter’s first day studying architecture, they had to plan and build a model of a city out of rubbish. The year before, they choreographed a dance about architecture :slight_smile: